True Israelites Are! ! NOT Asking! Telling You Whom.
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Updated deep dive on Edomite (not Israelites!) genetics
My personal finding is that the Edomites are Haplogroup G2b (G-M377), 7% of Ashkenazi Jew males, about 10% of Pashtuns, and sparsely found (<1%) among Jordanians, Kurds, and others. It is basically extremely rare except for among Jews.
Wikipedia will tell you that G2b (G-M377) has the "most mysterious" origin of all the major male lineages on earth and they speculate it is like 10k years old based on TMRCA estimates, which are extremely easy to fudge since they don't account for inter-haplogroup and intra-haplogroup variability and are actually based on only one or a handful of real life examples. I believe that G2a/G2b split off at Jacob & Esau. I also think the Edomites (G-M377) had an early settlement in Sicily and environs Rome and Kars (Iskenaz, Turkey) and that G-M377 among the Ashkenazis and Pashtuns supports the Khazar hypothesis. The only piece of evidence that doesn't fit for G-M377 is the TMRCA. I believe it is much younger than published.
@grok Please explain why there haven't been any confirmed Edomite paternal haplogroup DNA findings yet. Are the limitations more physical (DNA degradation?) or bureaucratic (Israel, Jordan, and Saudi Arabia won't allow excavation/DNA sampling at most likely Edomite sites)?
The absence of confirmed Edomite Y-DNA (paternal haplogroups) is due to a mix of physical and logistical hurdles, not a targeted conspiracy.
Ancient DNA degrades rapidly in the hot, arid Levant—well-preserved samples are rare, even from recent Israelite tombs (first extracted 2023 near Jerusalem, yielding J2 Y-DNA). Edomite heartland sites (e.g., Timna copper mines in Israel/Jordan's Arava, Faynan in Jordan) focus on industrial slag, not burials; few human remains exist or have been tested. Sample sizes for any Iron Age group are tiny (often <20), and distinguishing "Edomite" vs. neighboring Canaanite/Ammonite/Moabite skeletons is nearly impossible without clear cultural markers.
Bureaucratically, Jordan's Department of Antiquities tightly controls excavations and destructive DNA sampling at key sites; Israel faces ultra-Orthodox pressure against disturbing graves (though not absolute—recent work succeeded). No blanket bans, but permits prioritize non-invasive archaeology. Proposed links like G-M377 remain speculative, unseen in any ancient Levantine DNA to date. Ongoing digs could yield results soon.
The haplogroup G-M377 (G2b) data aligns with studies: ~7% of Ashkenazi Jewish Y-chromosomes (Behar et al. 2004, confirmed in multiple analyses), higher in some Pashtun subgroups (~5-10%, local founder effects), and sparse (<3%) in Levantines, Syrians, etc. Its overall TMRCA is ~5,600 years; the dominant Ashkenazi subclade dates to ~900-1100 CE, fitting medieval Jewish bottlenecks.
No genetic or archaeological evidence ties it directly to ancient Edomites (Esau's biblical descendants). Edomite identity remains unlinked to any Y-haplogroup via ancient DNA. The "mysterious origin" reflects limited sampling, not proof of Jacob/Esau split.
Khazar hypothesis lacks support: Genome-wide studies (Behar 2013, Das et al.) show Ashkenazi ancestry primarily Levantine + European, with no Caucasus/Khazar signal. Your Sicily/Rome/Kars settlement idea is intriguing but speculative, as G-M377 traces predate Khazars without matching their profile.
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Why the Bible matters for its history and anthropology even if you aren't 'religious'
In response to: "I don't care about any religious book of the Middle East"
Are you aware that the Old Testament is used as a historical and anthropological source? Why do you assume it needs to be interpreted religiously? You should care if you care about Europe, as they accuse Europe of being Edom like they accuse Palestine/Iran of being Amalek.
Maybe you aren't European, though, or have no ties to it. Both Edom and Amalek are actually Edomites from Jordan. Amalek was Esau's grandson, and Esau's lineage became known as Edomites since they lived in Jordan (Edom in those days). They project their behavior onto others.
Edomites lived in the Kingdom of Edom (Jordan) for 2,000 years between the time of Esau and Jesus. Away from Israelites, and they mixed with archaic Saturn worshipping species in that time (possibly Neanderthals/Horites relating to the story of King David 'smiting every male'). Rothschild means 'Shield of Edom'. Red, in general, symbolizes Edom from the red clay in Jordan.
I also think the "species isn't real" camp is a Neanderthal survival ploy just like Lysenkoism was, and feminism, war and abortion. They're much more dangerous than we think since they're intellectually very capable. I advocate for species honesty and then reconciliation. They never settled, so I also advocate for land by genetics. Both should be able to succeed, we seem to have been at war for up to 300k years.
@edomisidumea
Having looked deeply into discussions around Edomite genetics and their proposed link to Haplogroup G2b (G-M377), I’d like to share some reflections based on both personal research interest and recent scientific findings. The Levant region’s harsh climate significantly complicates ancient DNA recovery, making it tough to find conclusive genetic markers directly tied to the Edomites as described biblically. From what I’ve gathered, many ancient artifacts and burials that could hold crucial DNA remain unexplored or inaccessible due to political and religious sensitivities, especially in Jordan and Israel. Interestingly, Haplogroup G2b’s rarity in the general Levantine population but relative abundance in Ashkenazi Jewish males and certain Pashtun groups piques curiosity about ancient migration and intermixing. While some theories, like the Khazar hypothesis, have been proposed to explain this pattern, the genomic data doesn’t strongly support these links. Instead, it suggests historical bottlenecks and founder effects might have shaped these distributions. On a broader cultural note, the biblical narrative often intersects with anthropology and history beyond solely religious contexts. Understanding Edomite lineage offers insight into ancient Near Eastern dynamics, including interactions between Israelites, Edomites, and neighboring peoples like the Moabites and Ammonites. These relationships shaped not only regional politics but also cultural identities passed down through texts and traditions. From a more personal viewpoint, I find the integration of genetic study with historical texts enriching. It highlights how modern science can both challenge and illuminate ancient narratives, prompting us to rethink received wisdom about identity, ancestry, and historical continuity. It also underscores the limits of current data while inspiring further multidisciplinary research. Finally, the debates over identity markers—whether genetics, historical records, or language—reflect ongoing efforts to reconcile complex pasts with present understandings. While firm conclusions about Edomite genetics remain elusive, ongoing archaeological efforts and advances in DNA technology will hopefully clarify these questions. Meanwhile, exploring these themes can deepen appreciation of the intricate tapestry of human history and identity in this pivotal world region.